Author Topic: Greetings : New Visitor with a Question  (Read 708 times)

EDChronicler

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Greetings : New Visitor with a Question
« on: November 09, 2011, 03:25:01 pm »
Dedicated Earthdawn Player with some roots in Shadowrun.

First off, I want to thank you for bringing The Sixth World to the current environment of MMO's and Online Gaming.

Second: I have a question that is a big deal to me and after reading the Q&A and not finding the answers in there:

Character Sheet Presentation: For me I prefer my "MMO" Game Character sheets to be as closely resembling of my P&P versions, if the game has a P&P basis, this is one reason I will not play Champions Online. It has nothing to do with what I love about Champions. Now, I understand that the engine behind the game may not actually work exactly the same as the P&P version, often using more complex probability formulas, but personally, I'd still like the stats and the skills and the points I put into them to be as visually the same as possible.

Is the Shadowrun in game Character Sheet going to resemble the P&P Version?

EDC

Thomas P.

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Re: Greetings : New Visitor with a Question
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2011, 03:56:37 pm »
Hey there EDChronicler,

I am not member of the staff but I know it would be perfectly possible to make the character sheet look like the P&P version. However, this may not always be desired. First off, the character sheet is laid out for "Paper" sized such as US Letter or DIN A4. Your monitor however is anything from 4:3 to 16:10 or inbetween somewhere. So with that said, you could very well have all the stats from the P&P version in Shadowrun Online but if they will be presented the same way is another story (which I highly doubt). To me, it would be more important to blend in with the rest of the game in tonality and design.

So in essence, the engine (Unity) has little to do with how the sheet/stats look like :)

Thomas P.
http://www.dungeonlegend.com

Decivre

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Re: Greetings : New Visitor with a Question
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2011, 05:30:21 pm »
Hey there EDChronicler,

I am not member of the staff but I know it would be perfectly possible to make the character sheet look like the P&P version. However, this may not always be desired. First off, the character sheet is laid out for "Paper" sized such as US Letter or DIN A4. Your monitor however is anything from 4:3 to 16:10 or inbetween somewhere. So with that said, you could very well have all the stats from the P&P version in Shadowrun Online but if they will be presented the same way is another story (which I highly doubt). To me, it would be more important to blend in with the rest of the game in tonality and design.

So in essence, the engine (Unity) has little to do with how the sheet/stats look like :)

Thomas P.

I don't think that's exactly what he means. I think his intent was to say "make it so that the characters in the MMO can be directly converted to PnP characters; and make it as easy as writing my character's stats directly on the sheet". He wants the stats to be identical to the tabletop game in appearance, while not necessarily in play (they've admitted that they won't be using invisible dice pools and such in the game). In theory, this means that a player could play his character in the tabletop game with no conversion issues.

I should know, I've been asking for the same thing.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2011, 05:32:32 pm by Decivre »

Thomas P.

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Re: Greetings : New Visitor with a Question
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2011, 05:51:57 pm »
Ahhh yes. My bad. In any case, I don't see a reason why the original P&P couldn't be translated to Shadowrun Online.
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Sangius

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Re: Greetings : New Visitor with a Question
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2011, 06:15:46 pm »
The other way around will be more interesting I guess since you wouldn't be able to import already progressed chars into SR:O anyway. (Hey, can I play my 300 karma Sam in SR:O?! ;) )

Decivre

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Re: Greetings : New Visitor with a Question
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2011, 07:07:20 pm »
The other way around will be more interesting I guess since you wouldn't be able to import already progressed chars into SR:O anyway. (Hey, can I play my 300 karma Sam in SR:O?! ;) )

I wish. I have a 'mancer going through his 12th submersion I would LOVE to play as in the MMO.

Sangius

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Re: Greetings : New Visitor with a Question
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2011, 07:13:21 pm »
Well, depending on how it'll turn out you'll be able to ... you'll just have to start from scraps ;)

EDChronicler

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Re: Greetings : New Visitor with a Question
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2011, 07:43:56 pm »
Yes, its more about import/export than fitting a 8.5 x 11 page into the game.

And while I agree with the don't import a 300 karma character, if I have a Rocker Mage in my P&P and want to re-create him in game, I'd like it to be something that as I play I can compare the two without massive conversion needs.

Its also about putting the in-game character into a P&P Character Sheet and having a solid record of my character.

Alas, I am a tad sad that some of my favorite characters will not likely be transferable, but such is the way with first releases. I do intend to keep my eye on this and see what you create.

Sangius

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Re: Greetings : New Visitor with a Question
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2011, 09:27:08 pm »
Well, from what I read so far, the character creation should allow for quite some personal choices. Of course there might be some things left out in the beginning, but still, I think I will be able to recreate most of my favorite characters in SR:O :)

primetide

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Re: Greetings : New Visitor with a Question
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2011, 11:25:47 pm »
well we intend to follow the basic format and rules (other than the fact we may have stats/skills like 5.2 and 4.7), but I can honestly see a bunch of issues:
- we will be biased towards combat/communication skills, so certain skill groups won't be featured much in the game (such as knowledge)
- we will probably rack up more contacts than your usual runner, but less stuff otherwise
- magic and hacking will work differently (as they need to be on equal footing in the action map), so not sure about the corresponding numbers etc.
- we may start from a lower base of initial points to make up for the low power level progression in SR

So I would say you can probably build a similar P&P character from an SRO character, but especially once progression kicks in, it won't be copy paste.
And honestly, your P&P character will have much more color I would assume ;)
Yay for the Flaming Carrot

Decivre

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Re: Greetings : New Visitor with a Question
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2011, 06:24:00 pm »
well we intend to follow the basic format and rules (other than the fact we may have stats/skills like 5.2 and 4.7), but I can honestly see a bunch of issues:
- we will be biased towards combat/communication skills, so certain skill groups won't be featured much in the game (such as knowledge)

I had a feeling about this. My guess is that language skills will not be necessary, neither will some physical skills to simplify gameplay... like gymnastics. Also, the majority of social skills will probably be omitted (with the exception of perhaps con and negotiation). Does that mean that crafting will be handled skill-lessly?

- we will probably rack up more contacts than your usual runner, but less stuff otherwise

I saw that coming. That means that a lot of the minor purchases that runners make... datachips, mapsofts, metahuman customization and the like will be implicit in the game.

- magic and hacking will work differently (as they need to be on equal footing in the action map), so not sure about the corresponding numbers etc.

How will you do this and match them at least somewhat to the playstyle of the characters in the tabletop game? The two tend to be dramatically separate in gameplay; hacking is a more subtle affair, while magic is very... artillery-esque?

I'd say that you just have to give hackers room to be as versatile as they are in the RPG. Allowing rigging and plenty of drones (at least as much as the usual subscription rates in the tabletop game) will go a long way to balancing them out. Giving hackers plenty of on-map cameras and nodes to hack will also help. Really, the best way to balance the two is to make sure the map is catered toward hackers being present (which shouldn't be hard, considering that a wireless mesh of devices is standard fare for the setting now; it would almost be out of place for the game to have matrix dead zones)

- we may start from a lower base of initial points to make up for the low power level progression in SR

This is fine. What might be helpful to players that want conversion between games is if you use some sort of character title to label characters that are about equivalent to standard characters in the tabletop game. So for instance, when my technomancer (you must have technomancers in your game) gets a certain level of attributes, skills, complex forms, nuyen, contacts and equipment, I could get the "Veteran" character title, which informs me that my character is ready for the tabletop game.

So I would say you can probably build a similar P&P character from an SRO character, but especially once progression kicks in, it won't be copy paste.
And honestly, your P&P character will have much more color I would assume ;)

As long as conversion takes minimal effort, it's fine.

Such things as "take your MMO attributes and skills, round down to a whole number" are fine conversion requirements.

As long as it doesn't require it's own book to make the transfer, it shouldn't be an issue that we'd all fret about.

But character conversion is practically a prerequisite if you really want to cater to the tabletop RPG fanbase. Not doing so would be like trying to have a charity bluegrass concert for fans of metal.

primetide

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Re: Greetings : New Visitor with a Question
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2011, 08:30:54 pm »
great metal-bluegrasss crossover bands out there :)

hackers and mages on same footing means timewise and UI wise - the resulst differ dramatically as do the targets, but the sequence should always be: pick skill, pick target (camera (hacker) or chimera (mage)), "skill check", results (killed camera, killed chimear).
some may take more time to do (expressed in Action Points most likely, as the current init system really makes little sense in an MMO) but they are essentially handled the same way.
Yay for the Flaming Carrot

Dr. Curiosity

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Re: Greetings : New Visitor with a Question
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2011, 01:04:27 pm »
Not doing so would be like trying to have a charity bluegrass concert for fans of metal.

Hayseed Dixie, anyone?